Straight Up

Dope Guns and Fucking in the Streets

Comments

1. You know I hate to say it but I kind of agree with you. I dont really see posing naked or participating in the adult entertainment industry as empowering for females. In fact I think of it as degrading. How can guys trust a girl who shows one of her only private things to everyone? Isnt the point of a relationship to save something special for just you and your partner?

   Comment by Linds [Member] — 08/22/05 @ 14:05

2. I did a report on women and men in the sex industry and not to be stereo typical but the girls I interviewed (this was about 3 years ago) were from a local butt naked club, anyway, of the 20 strippers that I interviewed more than 50 percent of the women were at some point sexually molested, raped, physically abused or abandoned by parents. Most of these girls were barely 18 and most of them actually started dancing at a much earlier age with the help of fake IDs - Sadly almost all of them were at some point substance abusers themselves. There is much more going on beneath the glitter and high heels. I have alot of respect believe it or not for these women, as alot of them find it much better paying than a regular job and do have the intention of using such monies to enroll in College and many do. Then there is one girl in particular who actually found that stripping was xcellent money and had no intention of getting out. When I asked her what she planned on doing when she could no longer strip she said she would have had saved enough money to open her own joint. Regardless alot of these industry professionals are victims of their society, while this is not an excuse in the least one can at least consider that the trauma of rape, sexual abuse and physical violence they have endured for free why not pay to see the damaged product...I also interviewed several girls who did grow up in
   Suburbia in perfect homes but were too sheltered and as a form of rebellion turned to the industry for excitement and revenge or attention or lack there of that they were not recieving from home.
   As for the psycho element I guess one could only guess the walls and the guards that these girls have had to build to protect themselves after ging through whatever it is that drove them there in the first place.. as far as that being one perspective, I have also met people who have made better lives for themselves, faced with the same trauma that these girls are often confronted with, without having to take off their clothes for a dolalr- but who am I kidding even in a marriage situation one could easily compare the taking of of clothes and sex as a trade off for other things as well too,only in some instances we have one repeat customer.
   
   I could be very wrong about that theory..Im sure that I will hear much about this -

   Comment by icequeen [Member] — 08/22/05 @ 15:44

3. You have a pretty good theory icequeen. I appreciate the fact that you've actually conducted a study on the sex industry and not just like half the free world that passes judgement on women in the business. Your comments are afterall, in my opinion with merit. Here's the big reveal, I used to be a dancer. I've actually been a dancer at one of the more popular places here in Los Angeles and let me tell you, I've never had so much respect and so little respect for people under one roof. Icequeen is right, majority of them are from fucked up/sexually abusive backgrounds but there are all walks of girls in the business. I for one, was the "non-sterotypical" dancer that most people claim to know. I usually got the response, "What the hell are you doing here?" I didn't do drugs, never did, I drank occasionally, but that was the extent of substances for me, I was what is commonly referred to as a trust fund baby, I scored a 1500 on my SATs and had full scholarships lined up to practically every Ivy League college. I'm not an exhibitionist or particularly "get off" on flashing my tits. I don't have implants, in fact I'm arguably a B cup. What happened?? Nothing happened. I just realized the life most people expect me to lead wasn't the life that I wanted to lead. Now you're asking what everyone else did. If you don't have to work, why work at a place that requires you to take off your clothes? The beauty of it is no matter how much I try to explain, it's something that people can't possibly understand unless in your shoes. This place in particular in L.A. was known for it's ability to put on a "show". I spent afternoons "rehearsing" a show. No, I'm not talking about "Striptease" style, but more like gymnastics literally. I even did a lot of weight training to properly flip upside down and all around. Most strip clubs aren't like this but I built a following on the fact that I put on a good fuckin show. It sounds crazy but if anyone, I know you people from Portland know what I'm talking about, has been to a strip club where dancers perform tricks (for lack of better word) on the pole know that it's a whole different story. And I know half of you are still going to sit there and argue and say, "oh you're still taking your clothes off..." To be exact, it was just topless and it we had to wear pasties. My point is just before everyone passes judgement and jumps so fast to saying we degrade ourselves as women I would just like to defend the fact that I've made some of the best friendships and met incredible people through that place and yes, some of those girls I agree are on a downward spiral but working there was one of the best times of my life, everyone hates to be stereotyped so please don't be one of those people. Lastly, I'd just like to say that I ended up meeting the guy I'm going to marry there and it's been the best relationship I've ever been in. Ironically, he's the first guy that's never cheated on me and we've been together for 5 years total now. We are a perfectly happy, healthy couple, and at times, even boring! So say what you will, it really doesn't matter to me, but thanks to icequeen for setting an example.

   Comment by Guest [Visitor] — 08/22/05 @ 18:00

4. Wow, you really did hit the nail on the head icequeen! You're totally right with all the scenarios you provided. I think you pretty much covered the bases and although I'm not a "ex-dancer" like the above commenter, I have worked in a strip club before as a waitress. In fact, it's funny because I think I know the girl who just posted and if she's referring to the same well known club in L.A. that I worked at, then it's probably the same girl. If it is, she is one of the most "normal" girls I've ever met in my entire life. Anyway, I'm not here to defend anyone or take sides, I just want to say that I agree, a lot, and I mean A LOT, of the girls, in fact, I'd probably say 90% are fucked up and most likely will not go anywhere else with their life from what I've seen. I mean, there were girls going on 40, who have been there since 20. Some that are MARRIED with kids and still work there, some pop 50 vicodin a night and manage to stay alive, heroine addicts...you name it, it's there. That's a fact, but despite all the bad "seeds" among them, there are in fact some girls that are there just trying to make money to support school or whatever reason they're there temporarily and some, not majority, leave and move on. I have to admit, I thought the same way before I worked there. So degrading, slutty, skanky...but it took working in a place like that for me to realize that they're not all like that. Just like not all Asian kids are smart, and not every Indian family owns a 7-11...you get my point. I understand it's an easy target to bash but we need to stop being so ignorant. If you want to talk shit, then do so, but refrain from saying ALL or EVERYONE. Look at the second post, it said most or almost all, see, it's not that hard? It's funny, here in Hollywood an actress is offered more money sometimes to do nudity mind you, on screen for millions to view and no one ever says that's degrading...

   Comment by KZalan [Member] — 08/22/05 @ 18:46

5. Yes, I def don't think every single women participating in the business is like that. I do know a few girls that did it to put themselves through college. When I said degrading I meant women involved in prostitution not strip clubs.

   Comment by Linds [Visitor] — 08/22/05 @ 19:06

6. It depends on what scale the women falls in the sex industry. If they are A list strippers and/or escort girls it is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY (North America). Are they sometimes psycho? Yes, but so are some poor babes that work at Taco Bell.
   
   My theory is guys that date psycho girls whether they are strippers or secretaries are attracted to PSYCHO CHICKS it has nothing to do with the fact of her job. I would bet every penny I have in the bank that she is smokin hot and that is why the guy puts up with her crap.
   
   Suicide Girls...that is an alt site with tattoo barbies, into S&M, etc. it is part of the scene...the guys are crazy as well.
   
   I had a friend Cindy who fell under the "A List" category who stripped, dated rock stars, and was damn crazy when it came to guys. The drama was more due to drinking and drugs...Where is she now ten years later...married in Nebraska with a kid.
   
   Jed, I think you like drama...it's all about the sex, drugs, rock n roll lifestyle.

   Comment by nwgirl38 [Member] — 08/22/05 @ 21:21

7. JED,
   Sometimes I think you have it so wrong - or maybe I do (here I go when Ive been getting such postive comments on the forum to mess it up now) but I have to say Jed...
   I am not an animal lover but I got stuck with this dog,the ugliest thing I have ever seen and I treat her with the least consideration at times, I dont talk to her, I dont pet her often, I bitch at her all the time for chewing my shoes (arrggg)basically I am shitty to her but from the moment I leave the house, she sits by the fucking door and the bitch waits there untill I return, then Id walk into the door and I swear she'd cautiously jump all over me careful not to kiss me because she knows I hate that...this dog who I ignore but Ive in some sick way become her world.
   There is a point somewhere here and please no PETA attacks as I do care very well for the dog and there are others in my house that do doggie stuff with her..
   Ok..Jed..my point is, thats a dog but the people that you have become involved with are humans with if not more capacity to love and be loved or needed. Here they are God knows why they are there stripping, some selling themselves short of what they are worth and there you come along - what is the attraction? Does it ever go beyond tits and ass? Is it ever about that look in her eyes that says there is a story there that subconsciously you like to know. Maybe you have the Knight In Shining Armour Syndrome where you are looking for your princess whos locked in some Ivory tower of sorts and needs to be saved by you. Its not a bad rationale you know. I know you think that most of these women think like men, hence the attraction but I would beg to differ because I think that alot of these women surround themselves with walls - walls in the form of coke (to blur reality maybe), sex as a wall as if to say, that by taking so casually something so valuable as someones' self you are taking the ultimate and for them it no longer becomes something that is of value. As i mentioned in post number 2 there are many tragic reasons why most of these girls do what they do ,I dont think that when you look at them for the first time (tits and ass appeal) that they come out and tell you "Jed my father molested me when I was 8 so there is nothing you can do hurt me" its not so at all. I dont know, Nobody wants to be used and left for the vultures. So the attraction you feel for these women are what to you? Maybe like these women you are building your own walls - the wall that lets you walk away no emotional ties, I mean these girls dont care right? Indirectly you may be looking for what they are looking for... to be needed even if for a short moment. You may deny it, I may be wrong - But if your attraction is so strong towards these women I cant help but wonder why? I am learning that before you can save the world you have to save yourself first. Everyone needs to be loved and needed on some level...even my dog. So what I'm saying is that despite the fact that these women are open for whatever, and you are open for whatever, just know that beneath all of that open space there is so much more on both your perspectives- no body wants to marry the coked up stripper but every one wants to fuck her, she must be so proud of herself... and the next time the psycho stripper girl friend goes berzerk on you maybe its just deeper than her being jealous of you - I dont know man, we just have to be so careful how you treat people these days you know, you never know what you mean to someone after you walk away no matter how unimportant they may be to you - this is my downfall for as you know I am a bit of an inconsiderate hot head but in responding to your post this is how I feel.
   (o so that there is no misunderstanding I am not comparing strippers to dogs Im just saying that even an animal meeds to be loved much less humans ..just wanted to clarify that)

   Comment by icequeen [Member] — 08/22/05 @ 21:55

8. Hey Linds, I wanted to apologize. My comment wasn't directed towards you. I was referring to the general population that likes to call strippers degrading. But I hadn't even noticed that you even said that until I checked your post again! Icequeen, you seem to have a good insight on the subject matter. It's funny reading your post and realizing that no matter what people do (for jobs, money, whatever) everyone in the end is looking for the same thing. Most people just want to be loved. It's funny, I saw more of my own friends go home with guys while out partying then I saw strippers go home with guys when I worked at a strip club. Maybe I just worked a rare place, the more I think about it. I mean, looking back talking to these girls, most had boyfriends and if they didn't they were single and looking for what icequeen described above and that's the honest truth. Some of them were even aching to be in a good relationship and got their hearts broken by guys that slept with them and never called them back. Jed, I understand why you think the way you do but Icequeen has a good point. I think at some point, everyone wants to be loved but I think people get to that point at different times. Most people, guys and girls, go through that period where they just "want to have fun" and sleep with whoever and not have anything serious with anyone. There's a small solution, find people that want the same thing you do.

   Comment by KZalan [Member] — 08/23/05 @ 15:04

9. Yeah, I agree nwgirl, with the A-Listers and Escort services those girls are totally about money. It reminds me of places like Vegas and those cheezy strip clubs that advertise as "steakhouses". LOL. That's one of the places you can find the gold diggers and the A listers. But the pyscho thing does seem to fall into a pattern when you think about it. And it's so true, Jed lives like a rock star but I've been there, done that, still doing it!

   Comment by KZalan [Member] — 08/23/05 @ 15:14

10. What is a stripper anyways? A stripper obviously has the ability to get naked in front of anyone. Very impressive. A stripper obviously knows where to go to get a lot of money in little time. Very smart. Perhaps that is why some of them are deamed crazy, or psycho. Over the years, I have witnessed many powerful and intellegent women deamed crazy. Just because they were smarter than the guy sitting next to them who just wanted sex. The guy was rejected, so he called the bitch crazy. Think of how many strippers have men sitting next to them who just want sex? Think of how often those men get rejected. Do we have a lot of crazy bitches now? Multiply that by a million, and you get a society that believes strippers are crazy, and dirty of course. But are they really? I dont think so. Your next door neighbor has probably slept with more people than the stripper at the club. Give the bitches a break. That has got to be a hard fucking job. I give them skins. I dont have the guts. Men are attracted to powerful woman, the problem is that men have trouble finding and keeping them. I wouldnt be suprised if Jed's dream girl, the one he fell in love with after the first girl died of cancer has a dirty little secret. Uh Oh.

    Comment by Linzalicious [Member] — 08/23/05 @ 23:27

11. over the years i have seen many powerful and intelligent women deemed crazy. and i have also seen a lot of crazy women deemed crazy. there can be exceptions but dont forget that generalizations are hardly ever fullproof. fact is that there are strippers that are psycho unstable people. we cannot state that all of them are this way because we dont know every stripper everywhere, but we also cannot go to the opposite extreme and idealize the strip tease proffesion as a liberator of females and the choice of powerful, evenminded women because that is simply not the case. there are many different kinds of strippers, the nymphos, looking for anything to fuck out of nothing more than a desire to feel good about themselves and temporarily fill the hole deep inside (and i dont mean the vagina) the girl who doesnt like it but wants good money to raise her child by herself even if it means having men rape you visually every night and feeling put down constantly, the drug addict who has no sense of self anymore and lives from fix to fix, the woman who does it because it is good money with no guilt or remorse or insecurity, the girl who does it to prove to herself that she is strong and uninhibited feeding a facade of strength that will eventually fade, the girl who does not place any emotional or spiritual value on sexuality, beit from abuse or bad experiences, and many more which i cant even think of at this time. of all these different kinds only one, maybe two strike me as well grounded, or grounded enough, the rest are just not. at the end it depends on the particular situation, on the specific person, you might make a lot of money but that is not what matters most, it is your intentions and motivations which will prove your actions to be of benefit or detriment to your self.

    Comment by alex2468 [Member] — 08/24/05 @ 11:25

12. Alex....that makes sense. I was generalizing. Sometimes its hard not too. I think I was sticking to the idea that men generalize strippers. Jed had said that he could never imagine being serious with one because they are just all crazy. I wanted to look on the bright side. I know that women who slut themselves out have issues. However, I dont think that all strippers are slutting themselves out. I also believe that many people assume all strippers have slept with hundreds of people, and I dont think that is the case. Sometimes women act psycho just to get attention. If its not sex, then its craziness that is attracting attention. Good or bad? There is always something that works.

    Comment by Linzalicious [Visitor] — 08/24/05 @ 12:07

13. This is well said Alex.
    
    I think that some people would like to justify stripping as a feminist movement as Jed state (empowerment) but I cant see how, unless it is saying (this is my body I can do what I want) Of the interview I did, 15 out of the 20 girls admitted giving clients blow jobs, 9 were heroin addicts I believe and the vast majority were coked. Saying that, I met 3 who convinced me saying that they were clean and were going to college. Unfortunately these were not gold digging A listers- these were anybody's neighbours, alot of mothers and rebellious daughters. I always thought stripping was glamarous - It really isnt. These girls fight for clients, some go beyond dancing, maybe the novelty wears off after the first month or so - while these girls look great from the outside it is obvious that there is so much more going on inside. I did the piece while doing some writing for a local magazine, I had recently visited a butt naked club and just had to get behind the psychology of the women that worked there. I met a couple of good people there but sadly I walked away knowing that half these girls needed help that I was afraid they would never recieve. I examined my own life as well and in my piece I mentioned that I have dated people whom I have gotten naked in front of and the relationship didnt last - I got nothing out of it, these girls I guess view it that way - instead of giving it for free why not get something for it, I mean the relationship wont last anyways right? Maybe Im the idiot for leaving myself open for free sex, Im the idiot for thinking that Im so much better because I dont charge? How many of us have been burned by people that we have given our selves to? What makes us any better than these girls? We have more respect for ourselves,we dont do drugs, we wear more clothing than they do, we wernt victims of our environment? The next time I have sex I will be sure to ask myself, whats in it for me- Is it that I need to be needed/loved.. how long do I see myself in this relationship? Am I giving more than I am recieving? I think that while I am so busy analyzing that somewhere in the world a stripper has already made a couple hundred bucks and moved on to the next '"relationship"
    

    Comment by icequeen [Member] — 08/24/05 @ 12:22

14. I agree with the icequeen. I know some girls who got into it to get through school and ended up staying cause the money is really good. But I don't see it as empowerment. I think some girls do it for the money and some girls just don't know how to stop.

    Comment by xtrashorty [Member] — 08/24/05 @ 16:36

15. I guess it is a vicious cycle like many of them put it. It reminds me of when I started to bartend and people would say, "you start making money like this and it's going to be hard for you to work any other jobs". they were right. Let's face it, most of these girls aren't going to college and have no plans of aquiring a degree, so with the "skills" they have, the decision between stripping and flipping burgers is usually obivous. I mean, you make say 3,4, or 5 hundred a night, even 200, I don't see why these girls woul want to leave let alone find another job. I'll admit when I worked at Coyote Ugly and make about a thousand in tips thursday through saturday I found it extremely hard to pack up and finish college. I almost thought I could do that forever. I almost don't blame them, making that kind of money. If anything, I think some of those girls leave because the business just gets to them one day, or they fall in love but unfortunately most are too in love with the money to leave.

    Comment by KZalan [Member] — 08/24/05 @ 19:11

16. Damn... I need to be careful photographing any girls from SG... don't want any weird shit like that happening to me.
    
    I have to admit that I've had problems with models and artistic subjects in the past, but not too much since I keep everything professional... but you always run across the "bad seed" that gets psycho because you won't have sex with her and every time she has an orgasm she canes her boyfriend that's tied up in the corner. But alas, that's a long story best left for another day...
    
    digital-agitation

    Comment by DitigalAgitation [Member] — 08/25/05 @ 10:04

17. We actually want to know more...you see we dont get much male interpretation here in this column, so please, enlihgten us with your stories.....what is up with the girl who is psycho because you wont have sex with her, what is up with her caning the guy in the corner????? Digital I am talking to you!!!!

    Comment by Linzalicious [Member] — 08/26/05 @ 02:49

18. hey! are you calling me a vagina?

    Comment by alex2468 [Member] — 08/26/05 @ 10:41

19. Alex.....I would never do that.........

    Comment by Linzalicious [Member] — 08/26/05 @ 11:40

20. hehe.

    Comment by alex2468 [Member] — 08/26/05 @ 11:52

21. HAHA that was cool

    Comment by adult personals [Visitor] — 08/28/05 @ 02:03

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